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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 25/01/2006 15:27:52
Welcome to the virtual war on drugs.
Some people will allways engage in RMT. The measures chosen to "***** down" on them will lead to a lot of people being punished, not all of whome will have any idea what is going on, let alone engaging in RMT.
There is no way, for example, to tell if someone who has just given you ISK has aquired it legitmiately or not. You can wake up and find you are deeply negative in ISK.
Someone who is an ISK seller with a throwaway account who's about to go to sleep, fully expects to be banned over night and has 100 mil left...so he goes and gives a million to 100 newbs. Next thing the newbs know, they are in debt and warned for buying from Ebay. This HAS HAPPENED in other games.
Thus, players need protection:
For starters, you need to remove the ability to give ISK to anyone in Eve remotely, without confirmation.
Adding a confirmation to the recieving of ISK from people at a distance is now absolutely required. Or simply remove the ability to give ISK at a distance and make it something which requires the use of the trade window.
The principle that user action is required to accept ISK and thus it MUST be a voluntary action to take ISK from a seller.
Oh, and "Don't take ISK from strangers, kids" needs adding to the tutorial. Period. Sucks for newer players, yes.
FireFoxx80, Ebay do NOT tollerate sting operations, they require all sales to be genuine. The way to remove infringing auctions is by the Verified Rights program.
And no, I don't buy ISK. I don't NEED to buy ISK, I am really quite rich thanks to CCP's little traderoute surprises and other players mistakes. If I needed a lot of ISK, I'd sell GTC's. (And I can't think why I'd need billions except if I was buying a second character).
(I'll leave out the social issues and why I think this RMT policy is counterproductive in the extreme)
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:39:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 25/01/2006 16:38:57
 Originally by: Rodj Blake
Excellent stuff.
Though if it were me in charge, I'd perma-ban the buyers after the first offence as well.
You need to go and look up some surveys about the percentage of players who use RMT services.
Also see my description earlier in the thread. You'd ban the 100 newbs? Try PROVING it wasn't a RMT deal... (When the guy who was banned said it was)
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.25 17:05:00 -
[3]
Well yes, I have. I use my real name over there, though.
And while I'm aware of the issues surrounding time cards, if CCP remove the ability to sell them for ISK, they really need to make a far harder push to get the actual cards into shops.
I've never ever seen one in the UK. Are GameStation or GAME not interested?
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.25 20:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 25/01/2006 20:04:35
Originally by: Kisaku
Some type of law needs to be created here, saying that selling virtual items for cash is illegal. The owners of the mmorpg own that data, and just allow you on their servers.
After a law like this takes effect, ebay and every other big site that sells money, items, characters, etc... Would be forced to shut down.
The law, quite bluntly, would likely be the OTHER way.
This - or at least the very real posibility - is why MMO companies do NOT push this into a lawsuit.
There is no real consensus on the matter. These discussions can get..heated..to say the least among devs.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.25 20:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Azareis
I these macro miners are usually the ones selling the isk on Ebay or whatever .
No.
The usual MO of the sellers is to get corp/alliance leaders to plunder corp/alliance funds. This a favourite of IGE.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.26 01:14:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 26/01/2006 01:15:26
Originally by: Rod Blaine
We all have an 'inbred' tendency to regard buying virtual goods as cheating
Er...no. Please don't speak for me. I consider it lame, but hardly cheating.
(On a personal level anyway. IGE, because of its methods, I do consider an issue and I think it can be challenged from a purely business perspective)
Marcus: Second Like, Ultima Online. There, two off the top of my head. And there are several others, too.
To use two long older MMO games as examples...
Allowing RMT does not mean that there will NOT be a robust game economy (Ultima Online).
Disallowing RMT does not mean that there WILL be a robust game economy (Asherons Call).
Harik A'ttar, not really. As long as the rules of the gameworld are followed, it's fine. But, for example, CCP would HAVE to refund ISK lost to hacking. There are however many other implications and I am on record as saying, under my real name, that I consider most MMO's response to this as sticking their heads in the sand and hoping the bad people go away.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.26 01:50:00 -
[7]
Um..
No, not really. It remains FAR more robust than the vast majority of MMO economies out there.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.26 12:35:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 26/01/2006 12:35:28
Wyrm, and to be entirely honest I view that phrase as extremely dangerous to the rest of the IP claims made in the EULA, since similar claims (that you have no interest in time invested) have been struck down before in other industries. That Eve is a game has no bearing on this.
And once you can prove that some of the claims are unduly broad, that often leads to others being set aside.
Most other MMO's do not have that clause for precisely that reason.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.26 13:59:00 -
[9]
...They don't get banned from Ebay in any case.
And don't forget other services sold for ISK like killboards, information websites and so on.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Karash Amerius
To be honest, I think you guys are waxing way over the top on IP philosophy. The idea that a court would uphold a player's money dispute with a game publisher of a non-gambling game site is outrageous.
People with a lot more experience of developing MMO's than you - and their lawyers - disagree with you.
I'll take their word above yours.
Welcome to the information era.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.27 00:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 27/01/2006 00:26:54
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: NickWest
Edited by: NickWest on 26/01/2006 22:21:21
Edit, was complaining about the hypocrisy of selling GTC and banning for buying ISK. Comments removed.
meh, ^^ agreed
Grats on the bansticks though. Nice to know its being tackled.
Yes, because CCP get their cut with ETC's. Skipping that is banable.
Cynical? ME? Say it ain't so!
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.27 14:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
New sport: Use the 'Ask the seller a question' feature on eBay, pointing people to this thread and dev blog.
Responses so far have been great, some downright hostile, and some clearly admitting that they sell goods and characters on eBay in order to support themselves RL.
That's also an extremely good way to get banned from Ebay, I'd add.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:06:00 -
[13]
You can earn and own chess rankings.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.27 17:28:00 -
[14]
It's NOT illegal, it's against the EULA. There's a huge difference.
Ebay DO have the Verified Rights program, but it's manpower intensive to use.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.28 17:48:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 28/01/2006 17:48:42
Originally by: Supa Kawaii
Also, If yall focused as much time as this wonderful post about known rules, you could of banned a few macro miners that are doing all this "omg oh so bad isk selling".
If you actually bothered to READ...
Macrominers | ISK Sellers
IGE and other major seller's MO is to get major corps/alliances to raid the piggy bank.
And Vargrh, CCP selling ISK is inflationary. Character -> Character ISK transfers are not.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.29 02:13:00 -
[16]
Name em :)
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.29 13:44:00 -
[17]
Grismar, this has been explained about 6 times allready, but: Ebay do NOT tolerate that. Transactions MUST be in good faith, and they WILL sue. If you want auctions removed, then you must us the IP Verified Rights program. Period.
And it would likely also start a lawsuit over the value of your time in Eve, which is FAR from a certain victory for CCP. And CCP do *not* want to lose that law suit and set that precident. Better to leave it fuzzy.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.29 22:03:00 -
[18]
If you look, they're Google adverts.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.29 23:20:00 -
[19]
It's not illegal.
Should CCP link to sites which do it? AFAIK, no.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.30 15:47:00 -
[20]
LOL Sorja.
Compared to other MMO's, Eve is extremely well designed in that department.
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Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.31 03:04:00 -
[21]
Why "give ISK" AT ALL?
Indeed, it's a liability when they're banning people for taking ISK which comes from a character which is ebayed. At the very least, there needs to be a confirmation before you take ISK (so you can see the recipient WANTED the ISK).
Let people meet to transfer ISK, shrug.
(And there are perfectly legit reasons to transfer a lot of ISK for no material good, i.e. mercenary contracts)
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.31 20:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2006 20:11:40
Except it's not.
The IGE and other companys tactics is to get the CEO/Director to open the Corp/Alliance piggybank.
Not dealing with macroers.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.31 20:18:00 -
[23]
IGE has has the same MO in nearly two dozen games for over five years. I don't see them changing it magically for Eve.
PS, if you have any specific accusations, petition. Period.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.01 01:38:00 -
[24]
Jennifae,
Proof plz. Better still, write it up, head over to Corpnews.com and email it to the editor with a note that Mr. Crick told you to submit it, and if it's true and even moderately well written it'll hit the front page.
Thanks.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
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